Madonna doesn’t stop. And with his latest show at Camden’s People’s Theatre, neither does Brian Mullin. Following from the successful run at the Omnibus Theatre in Clapham earlier this year, and in case you missed it, this is your chance to catch the show that uses Madonna as inspiration to explore survival with HIV.
Tickets at www.cptheatre.co.uk .
Back in January 2023, we spoke to Brian Mullin, writer-performer of Live to Tell: (a proposal for) The Madonna Jukebox Musical, about the Queen of Pop, HIV stigma and the power of reinvention.
Where did you get the idea to link a pitch to Madonna with the complicated emotions of surviving with HIV?
Madonna’s career started at almost exactly the same time as the outbreak of the AIDS epidemic itself. And she’s been an outspoken advocate for people living with HIV from the very start, when no other celebrities would even mention it. But really the connection is a symbolic one: for 40 years, she’s stayed on top by constantly changing and adapting herself – just like a retrovirus! (Some Madonna fans may not like this comparison, but it makes sense to me!) People with HIV have probably all felt a desire to reinvent ourselves, and she is the Queen of Reinvention.
You’ve been living with HIV for ten years. You write about the guilt of surviving when so many of us didn’t. Were there any moments when you thought you wouldn’t make it?
When you get diagnosed these days, you hear a lot of good news about medication and U = U. This is a huge, important advance for all of us. But if meds allow us to live, what helps us live well? In the face of ongoing stigma and misinformation, surviving with HIV is about more than just taking your pills. Over the last ten years I’ve sometimes felt really strong – and then low moods and side effects sneak up on me. Thankfully, I have an incredible community of support from other people with HIV, as well as counseling services from the NHS. Maintaining our mental and emotional wellbeing are essential to survival with HIV and the show explores all of it.
How cathartic has the creative process been?
Before this, I mostly worked as a playwright, staying off the stage. I’ve never hidden my HIV status in my personal life but it’s a much bigger deal to step on stage and share it with everyone who knows you – and plenty of people who don’t. So many people with HIV don’t have the privileges that I have to safely talk about it in a public forum, so I feel a huge imperative to be as open as possible about the good parts and the bad. I’ve listened to so many Madonna songs during the show’s development, too. She’s really kept me going. Don’t go for second best, baby!
You reference the superpowers of Madonna. Do you feel superhuman in yourself as a survivor?
No. In the early years after diagnosis, I tried to do all the right things to show that I was really ‘succeeding’ with my HIV. I told friends and family, I joined activist groups, I volunteered. I was focused – correctly – on moving forward, just like Madonna sings, ‘I don’t think of yesterday, and I don’t look at the clock…’ It looked like I was doing incredibly well, and in many ways I was, but there was a lot of unprocessed trauma underneath. Diagnosis with HIV doesn’t move in a straight line. When those unexpected dark moments rise up, the most valuable superpower is admitting your vulnerability!
For those who were in and out of hospital in the early days of the epidemic, irreverent humour was a saviour. We laughed and lived in the moment. How important is humour to you, and how prevalent is it in the play?
Even in our darkest moments, the queer community never fails to deliver camp, and neither does this show! The funniest bits come from the incredible Dan de la Motte who plays all the other roles, particularly when he puts on a wig. There’s also an extreme density of Madonna in-jokes for all the fans to enjoy. I want everyone to have a great time.
What do you hope the audience will take away with them?
I truly think this show tells a story that has rarely been shown on stage or film. What is it like to get by, day to day, on medication, dealing with internalised stigma, surviving and thriving with all the good and bad of HIV. I hope that those who are living with HIV feel some part of that experience reflected back and I hope other people are able to empathise with those emotions. If they also start a grassroots campaign for Madonna to hire me onto the biopic she’s making, then that wouldn’t be too bad either!
If you had one wish for 2023, what would it be?
We presented first scratch version of this show four years ago. All through the pandemic, it kept almost happening but not quite. Now here we are in 2023 and it’s not only the tenth anniversary of my diagnosis, but also Madonna’s going on a career-spanning 40th anniversary world tour. I hope that she shows the world how to reinvent global pop stardom at age 64 and I hope that people living with HIV all around the world feel more and more empowerment to love themselves and tell their own stories.
Buy tickets for Live To Tell: (A Proposal For) The Madonna Jukebox Musical runs at Camden People’s Theatre from 4 -15 April. Tickets at www.cptheatre.co.uk .
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